Monday, February 2, 2009

Debashree's Interview with papa ajoba


Ever since I moved to Bangalore I have not been able to do anymore work with my grand father for this blog. But once in awhile somebody sees this blog or meets me somewhere and wants to meet papaajoba and sometimes like Debashree Mukherjee they want to meet him for their own research.

When Debashree asked me if she could interview my grant father I was more than happy, my only condition was that she should share her interaction, learnings,insights on this blog. She agreed and below is the transcript of her interview with papaajoba.

P.S. This is papa ajoba's latest photograph taken by Debashree.


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Excerpts From An Interview with Ram Tipnis, 18th August, 2008, at his Bandra residence

This interview was conducted as part of my M.Phil research on the Hindustani film industry in Bombay during the 1930s and 40s. One of my areas of focus is a cluster of film studios of the time, particularly Filmistan. A friend suggested that I take a look at Anuja’s blog and I’m still thanking her for that piece of timely advice! Filmistan studio was founded in 1943-44 by a breakaway group from the famous Bombay Talkies Ltd.; a move spearheaded by Sashadhar Mukherjee and Rai Bahadur Chunilal. This interview tries to understand certain material practices and individuals associated with Filmistan in the 1940s.

Mr. Tipnis’ story is significant not just as an account of an earlier time, but also because it is an unlikely voice. While there is a paucity of published research on the early years of the talkies in Bombay, the little that exists has had to depend on official studio sources or interviews with star actors and directors. It is rare to find the voice of a make-up artiste in a context wherein even cinematographers and editors do not receive any journalistic or scholarly attention.

The interview was conducted in a mix of Hindi and English, and I have used my discretion to translate Mr. Tipnis’ words. A lot of the material in this interview might overlap with material already on the blog. But then, memories often have a cyclical, repetitive nature. These notes are part of my ongoing research and are presented here verbatim. I am grateful to Anuja Ghosalkar, and her mother, Nayana Ghosalkar, for facilitating this conversation. And of course, much gratitude to Mr. Tipnis, for sharing his memories with such felicity.



DM: When and how did you join Filmistan?
RT: Filmistan started in 1942-43. At the time I was working as a make-up artiste at Shantaram’s Rajkamal Studio. I had some minor misunderstanding with V. Shantaram one day and tempers flared. He shouted at me and I, being young and hot-headed, just quit. I don’t know if it was bad luck or good, but that’s what motivated my move to Filmistan. I knew a character actor of the time, Nana Palsikar, who had done work with Bombay Talkies and knew the Filmistan gang. He wrote me two recommendation letters - one to be given to Rai Bahadur Chunilal, the Managing Director of Filmistan Ltd., and the second to be given to Mr. Sashadhar Mukherjee, the Controller of Productions. I went to Filmistan the very next day, armed with my letters. Both the men met me and asked me some questions. Then they called their own make-up artiste, Mr. Jadhav. Rai Bahadur asked him: “Do you know this young man?” And Jadhav replied, “Yes.” Jadhav was an old and experienced make-up artiste who had worked for Marathi theatre as well. He knew my father, a stage actor, and was familiar with my work.

And so, in 1945, at the age of 25, I officially joined the Filmistan team. S. Mukherjee told me that they had started work on a film titled Shikari and they needed special Chinese make-up for one of the characters. He suggested that I take on the make-up work for the film, supervised by Mr. Jadhav. The actor playing the role was Samson, who generally played the villain in most films. I did a trial for the Chinese look on him and we went to Rai Bahadur and S. Mukherjee. They loved it. Rai Bahadur said, “Arrey! He is Chinese!” So I was now officially on board and doing my own film.


Shikari was directed by Savak Vacha, the sound recordist at Filmistan. He belonged to the Sashadhar Mukjerjee group and had come with him from Bombay Talkies…

DM: What was it that went wrong at Bombay Talkies?
RT: See, after Himansu Rai passed away, the studio was managed by Devika Rani. Amiya Chakravarty was her preferred director, and maybe Sashadhar Mukherjee felt sidelined. I don’t know exactly, but there was some misunderstanding. So Sashadhar Mukherjee, Ashok Kumar, Rai Bahadur Chunilal, Dattaram Pai, Gyan Mukerjee and Savak Vacha left Bombay Talkies and started their own Filmistan Studio. S. Mukherjee started his career at Bombay Talkies as a sound recordist and then learnt the ropes of filmmaking. He was very good at his work. Rai Bahadur Chunilal was a great man. I can vouch for the fact that if he had lived for another 10 years, the film industry would have been transformed. His son, by the way, was Madan Mohan.

DM: Do you remember any of the Filmistan writers? There used to be this writer called Manto…
RT: Yes. I remember him, but never had much contact with him. He was from the Writing Department so I would just see him around. Sometimes he would come on the sets during a shoot. You might know that he also acted in a Filmistan film, Eight Days…

DM: As an Air Force Officer?
RT: As a pagal! He was a good man. Every artiste has his ideas. He soon left for Pakistan…

DM: Were Rajkamal and Filmistan very different in terms of work atmosphere?
RT: Rajkamal Studio was like a Junior College for artistes. I was doing independent pictures at that time, when Rajkamal started. The man who did their make-up was my guru and he suggested that I join them. I was earning Rs. 150 outside but accepted the Rajkamal job for Rs.75 – because Rajkamal was a school, Shantaram was an artist. There was discipline, but another kind of discipline. Like don’t go there, don’t do that. But it was a school. We learnt how to create make-up material at Rajkamal. Now we know the procedure.

Filmistan was like a higher college, Senior College, very different but very fine. Rai Bahadur would come every day at quarter to two, without fail. Never a minute’s delay. That used to be lunch time so he would eat a bit and then take his rounds of the studio at 2pm. That was a time of the day when no one would be outside. Even the artistes would be in their rooms. One day he happened to be on a round as I was getting out of the toilet. He looked at me and kept walking. After some minutes his office boy came and called me saying Sir wants to see you. I wondered what was going on but hurried to his office. Rai Bahadur said that he was disappointed in me. “You are a Senior Officer of this company, the Head of a department, how can you be so careless?” I was completely taken aback. Then he told me that he had noticed that my trousers were still unbuttoned when I got out of the toilet! Such a small thing, but its these details that make an impression. That was their kind of discipline.

I remember another incident. In those days, Max Factor, the US make-up company, was the only established brand making professional products. So we all used to buy our basic materials from them. I used to personally go to their office at Gateway of India to pick up stuff. Rai Bahadur again summoned me one day and said that as an Officer of the company I should not travel by second-class on the local train. It is a question of the company’s reputation. So he got me a First-class pass.

Again, another time, an assistant of mine applied for a salary increment. Rai Bahadur called me and asked me if I agreed to it. See, at Filmistan, the Head of a department was the ultimate authority. He was entitled to take all decisions regarding his team and his requirements. So I said yes, the boy had not received an increment last year either and deserved one. Rai Bahadur then asked me how much the boy was getting at the moment. I told him, Rs. 50. Immediately he issued an order to the Accounts office to increase the salary to Rs.100. So that’s how they worked. There was a good atmosphere and good relations between the bosses and us.

At Filmistan we often used to play cricket, all of us. There was a big ground behind the studio. They were proper matches, being announced the day before. One day, Kishore Sahu was shooting for the picture Sindoor. He was a bald man and in those days we did not have very fine wigs. So I used to apply hair on his head. That day there was a cricket match scheduled for 11 and Sahu’s shoot was at 2pm. I reached the studio as usual at 8am and soon met Sahu. He asked me if I was playing in the match that day. I told him how can I when he has a shoot. He said, “Do one thing, do my make-up now and then go play your match!” It was perfect. Later I met S. Mukherjee on the pitch and he asked, “Kyon? Aaj shoot nahi hai kya?” I told him I had already finished for the day and they were all amazed. Because that hair job is intricate work. Anyway, the point is that everyone was very friendly and we were equals. On the set you have to be alert. When it is time for duty, you give it your best. But off-duty, no one will question you.

DM: Did you have any fixed timings for work at Filmistan?
RT: I used to reach the studio at 8am every morning. The artistes would come by 8.30-9am and the shoot would start by 10am. If there was no shoot on any morning, we would sit, chat, play cards or make material. And there was no compulsion to stay in the studio if we had no work. We just had to inform someone that we were done with our work and would leave. There was no system of freelance at the time. Even an actor like Dilip Kumar was paid a monthly salary like us. The 15th of every month was payday and Dilip Kumar would have to stand in the line just like the rest of us! I used to get paid Rs.500 per month and my assistants would get Rs. 200 and Rs. 100 respectively.

DM: Was the studio shooting more than one film at a time?
RT: Initially, for the first 4-5 films, Filmistan would shoot one film after the other was finished. Then we started double pictures with films like Shehnai (?)

DM: Did you also have female assistants on your make-up team?
RT: No no. The females were in the Hair Dressing department. That was a separate job. In fact Bombay Talkies and Filmistan started the trend of having a separate Hair Department. Before that the actresses would get their maids to do their hair or everyone would just do their own hair, you know Indian style.

DM: Wasn’t there a separate Costume Designer in those days?
RT: See nowadays people go about calling themselves “Costume Designer” but they just pick clothes without even reading the script! Earlier they would do a meeting with the Director, the Art Director and the Tailor Master and they would decide what costumes to give the main actors. I will show you 3 photographs of 3 actresses from today’s movies and you tell me what is different about each. They all have the same make-up, same hair, same clothes! In my time, Meena Kumari was Meena Kumari and Sadhana was Sadhana.

DM: Do you remember women being hired in any other department?
RT: Only as actresses or in the Hair department. Nowhere else. Even in the Costume department we had men, tailor masters. Sometimes if they needed help they might call the Hair assistant, but no, there were no other women employed in the studio. See, I have traveled all over the world and there are ladies in other countries who do make-up, who write and even do camera. But not in India. Now they are trying, as make-up artistes. Initially our union opposed this. Why you know? Because they are not used to the odd hours.. we are prepared to work not just 4-5 hours but even 12 hours if required. New people come in and have different ideas. Also, in our Indian culture, it was not accepted for a woman to come in so much contact with men.

DM: At the time you joined the film industry, was there a very negative view taken of the cinema world, as a disreputable place?
RT: No, no. I started my career in Pune and there was a very good atmosphere in the Marathi industry. In Bombay it was there. There were stories of film people drinking, smoking. And also earlier the ladies who joined films were not from good backgrounds. Durgabai Khote, Shobhana Samarth, Nalini Jaywant, they started a new trend. They were well-educated girls.

DM: How did you prepare for a film?
RT: Once the script was ready and the actors were finalized, I would be briefed by the director about the story and each character. I would then discuss my ideas for each character. Mostly these discussions would be with S. Mukherjee or directors like Gyan Mukherjee, Nandlal Jaswantlal, Santoshi etc.

DM: As far as scripts were concerned, were directors working with complete scripts before shooting started or would scenes continue to be written while production was on?
RT: S. Mukherjee always worked with a complete screenplay, with dialogue. There would be routine discussions on set, but everything was planned as far as possible.

DM: Because the ‘bound script’ as a concept has only recently come back into practice in Bombay.. For the longest time it was routine practice to present actors with new scenes on set.
RT: Haan, we used to call it ‘daily rationing’!

DM: Himansu Rai had a clear policy about hiring graduates, educated youngsters. Did this ethos get carried over into Filmistan as well?
RT: Himansu Rai was a very educated man from a high family. He got the best trained technicians, foreign technicians for his studio. In Filmistan there weren’t any special requirements as such. If you suit the character, you will be hired. (vague)

DM: This was a time of great political turmoil and communal tension. Independence and Partition were looming. Did this atmosphere affect life at the studios?
RT: At the time, 42-45, I was at Rajkamal. There was nothing of the sort.

DM: Manto writes about Filmistan being threatened with arson, around 46-47, because of the large numbers of Muslims who were employed…
RT: No no no. There was nothing like that. Dekho, film industry ek aisi industry hai jahaan na koi Hindu na Muslim. Sab artistes aur workers hain.

DM: Was there any anxiety about the Partition in terms of talented people leaving for Pakistan? Of technicians, artistes etc. leaving the Bombay film industry?
RT: Not that I remember. In fact, so many people from the Lahore film industry came to Bombay. Also, many people who left, came back after some time.

DM: How much did Hollywood influence work at the studios? Did you pick up techniques and trends from those movies or from American magazines?
RT: We used to watch the films that came and try to understand, study anything new or innovative. But that was our only source, the films. For example, there was a film with this man [Fred Astaire in Royal Wedding, 1951] who is dancing in a room and during the sequence he starts dancing on the walls and ceiling! Our sound recordist said he would figure it out. He made a model of a room, with pulleys and things, so that the character would be standing or dancing in one place but the whole background will be moving! It created the same effect but it was never picturised.

DM: What about Hollywood magazines? Didn’t people read technical magazines for information?
RT: They were simply not available. Maybe some people could pick them up on their travels..

DM: Which were the main halls in the 1940s for English film releases?
RT: Metro, Regal, Empire..




11 comments:

tanushree said...

Hi Anuja,

Today i went through all your posts and must congratulate you for your work..your blog provides a great insight to Indian Cinema in its early days..great photographs too..

This was what i had posted yesterday incase you missed out on it -

hi..great photos..but i cldn't get your name..in one photograph i see Chatura (tanuja's younger sister). Do you know where does she live, i mean is there any way you can send her a message (if you can get in touch with her)- actually, my mom studied with her in Mumbai and they were best friends for many years but they lost contact..My mom's name is Shipra Chatterji (nickname TUMA, Chatura used to call her "sippi" very often), they lived in Chembur many many years back..really looking forward to ur reply..thanks!! Tanushree

Nirvana said...

Welcome back Anuja,

Your posts were sorely missed, i am sure by many bloggers

Regards

Nirvana
@
http://nirvana73.blogspot.com/

Banno said...

Hi Anuja, Welcome back, and I do hope you can blog more often. Really enjoyed reading Debashree's notes.

Anuja said...

Tanushree: Thank you very much..i can certianly find out where she is and let you know...

Nirvana & Banno: Thanks I will try and write more..I am trying to figure out a way to do telephone interviews so that I can keep posting. Please let me know what direction my research can take..as in what is that you people would like to know so that I can ask him those questions to my grand father...

tanushree said...

Hi Anuja,

Thanks very much for your reply..That will be great..will wait for your revert reg this..if u can mail me the same at tanushree.ganguli@gmail.com

Thanks again!

Nirvana said...

Anuja,

What you are doing on this site is an invaluable historical archive of the film industry from the eyes of a veteran.

Some thoughts on how you could carry on

1. either proceed on the memories chronologically to give a sense of continuity or

2. identify key phases in the life of your grandfather and concentrate on blogging on those or

3. topical blogs dealing with particular actors, films, or topics of special interest

Oh yes! and do continue adding photos to your blog. Its great stuff. What I would like to see more is your grandfathers experiences and analyses of the Marathi film industry.

Regards

Nirvana @
http://nirvana73.blogspot.com/

Anuja said...

Dear Nirvana,
Thank you very much...in fact I was thinking along the same lines. My grand father's father ran a theatre company in Maharashtra and there is some great historical information there... papaajoba only acted in Marathi films never really did make up.

So ya this is great imput.
Also the reason I want to avoid chronology is because as you know memory comes in flashes, in bits and pieces so I sort of wnat to keep it like that...

But all your suggestions are well taken..maybe there needs to be some structure...

Thanks a ton again,
Anuja

Shweta Mehrotra Gahlawat said...

This was such a absorbing reading- and absolutely invaluable. Thank you for putting this together, and I really wihs you would post mroe often!

tanushree said...

Hi Anuja,

No posts..?? Please take out some time and take us through yet another memeorable journey..would love to see moe pictures as well..

BTW, did you chk about Chatura?? If you did and she doesn't remember my mom (which is highly unlikely as she always told her that she will always remember her) or maybe she doesn't want to get back in touch, thats fine too..but just let me know the same..actually, my mom's b'day is in March and i wanted to give her this surprize thatswhy i am writing to you again.

Looking forward to hearing from you..

memsaab said...

Lovely interview :) Every time I see Makeup--Ram Tipnis in a film's credits now I think: Papa Ajoba!

I'd love to see more photographs as well, if your grandfather is willing to share.

Anonymous said...

papa ajoba blog is really fantastic.
So much behind the scene materials.
I am at present reading a book written by Mr.Mihir Bose on Indian Film Industry( it's rise from early 30s to present days) and it seems that he may have used some information available on such blogs. it contians lot of details about Indian film industry.
Any film history lover shuold read this "memsaabstory" and "papa ajoaba" like blogs and enjoy and get enriched.
Bharat.